THE HELMET THREAD

heres an m1 i picked up a while back advertised as a vietnam era m1 it wasnt the liner is mid 80's but the lid was heat stamped S which was later confirmed as a surplus shleuter which were only made during ww2 so i was more than pleased

You sure about that Jay??

Is it front or rear seam?

hi gulf its rear seam swivel bails ww2 schleuter surplus repainted and reissued

Not doubting you or anyone else but how do you gather that as being rear seam and swivel bale if indeed it is WW2 then im sure it would be very late.

Pretty sure i have a few Nam and later M1s that are marked with the S hence my question as to why you think its WW2-is it because of the S stamp?

Aha, the great Schlueter debate,a subject very close to my heart James and Rich.

Schlueter officially started manufacturing the M1 shell in January 1943, which was in the front seam stainless steel rim version, in late 1944 the rim was then manufactured in manganese steel still front seamed. Again there were more changes in production, so that in November 1944 the rim was then produced in the manganese rear seam final model,they made 2,000,000 in total, so if you are lucky enough to own an "S" shell ,it's practically limited edition , well 1 of 2,000,000..so there it is a brief synopsis on the history of Schlueter Guys, hope this helps to clear up any mysteries!

Incidentally they way the DoD was organised in supply of equipment, WW2 lids were without doubt reissued right through the Korean, and Vietnam wars. I have several post 72 issued M1's with late WW2 shells.

Same here Gary,im just 99% sure that having a rear seam shell stamped with the S doesnt guarantee WW2 vintage.

as gary said Schlueter only manufactured m1's during ww2 period mine is very late war heatstamp is 454A

jaycee wrote:as gary said Schlueter only manufactured m1's during ww2 period mine is very late war heatstamp is 454A

Jay,im not arguing with or denying with either yourself or Gary but is there any written proof on this please?

Anyways,to me personally the maker of an M1 makes no difference to me as to its value or collectibility,the things that matter-for WW2 M1s are obviously condition,paintwork,swivel or fixed bale,front or rear seam-makers dont figure in anything to look out for me im afraid

Couple of M1s that were close to hand(again,apologies if already posted before).

Parade,Honor Guard chromed shell-Front Seam,Swivel Bale.These shells do pop up quite recently but the white leather liner chinstraps are quite rare(or they were!!!)

hi gulf its ok mate im not arguing either, i have no written proof i can only go off m1 experts opinions as for the heatstamp numbers there is no available information online you have to buy books on the subject and i think they are quite expensive i also think mccord book is available but schlueter book is still in production stage

No probs Jay,what i was trying to find out is are ALL S stamped M1s WW2 made or did they also make them post war-not that it matters one bit to me but would be nice to know.

One of my favourite M1s even though its a repro. From Band Of Brothers(liner previously used in SPR).Shell is Front Seam and has been converted into a D bale M2.

very nice chromed m1 gulf on the subject of m1's here's my nam m1c lid the shell in korean war period

Loving your M1's Guy's.

Ok let's clear this up once for all, there is clear written proof of "S" stamped shells, being produced through mid to late WW2, James with your 454A digit heat stamp that makes it approx June 1943.But Again let's not forget the rear seam was transferred in 1944 so this one is an anomaly but not unheard of , for example I have a Front seam fixed bale Lid, with original 1943 chinstraps attached,with a 100% guaranteed provenance ( got it off a member on USMF)and it has NO heat stamp on it anywhere, and this one could well be a "S" model too... and NO they were not produced post war.......Gentleman I rest my case


I am a member of USMF, other members who share information on this forum, are the fantastic Author of the world acclaimed book Helmets of the ETO no less, I have this book it is a VERY good source of info let me tell you, I also have many other M1 related books such as the fantastic M1 Helmet by Mark A Reynosa, this guy knows his stuff..so as a result so do I

Please post more M1's and any other questions relating to them, I'll be glad to help!

thanks for clearing that up gary and thanks for giving me a date of manufacture your the first person to do so

Easy Gee wrote:Loving your M1's Guy's.

Ok let's clear this up once for all, there is clear written proof of "S" stamped shells, being produced through mid to late WW2, James with your 454A digit heat stamp that makes it approx June 1943.But Again let's not forget the rear seam was transferred in 1944 so this one is an anomaly but not unheard of , for example I have a Front seam fixed bale Lid, with original 1943 chinstraps attached,with a 100% guaranteed provenance ( got it off a member on USMF)and it has NO heat stamp on it anywhere, and this one could well be a "S" model too... and NO they were not produced post war.......Gentleman I rest my case


I am a member of USMF, other members who share information on this forum, are the fantastic Author of the world acclaimed book Helmets of the ETO no less, I have this book it is a VERY good source of info let me tell you, I also have many other M1 related books such as the fantastic M1 Helmet by Mark A Reynosa, this guy knows his stuff..so as a result so do I

Please post more M1's and any other questions relating to them, I'll be glad to help!

Thanks for the info

Must say though that in all my years of collecting this crap i would estimate a 100+ M1s have passed through my hands(probably still have around 30) and not once have i ever bothered to look for those stamps/numbers etc-if they came or come with a liner thats what interests me

jaycee wrote:thanks for clearing that up gary and thanks for giving me a date of manufacture your the first person to do so

Absolutely no problem James, glad to help you, I relate to how frustrating it is not to be able to successfully date M1 lids, but with the right info to hand it becomes less of a hassle.

If you need any more info in the future PM me

Thanks for the info

Must say though that in all my years of collecting this crap i would estimate a 100+ M1s have passed through my hands(probably still have around 30) and not once have i ever bothered to look for those stamps/numbers etc-if they came or come with a liner thats what interests me [/quote]


No problem Rich, I am one of those people who like to delve deeply into dates and manafacturers of M1's ...I am a self confessed M1 geek!!!!

hi gulf im really liking your agentine m1 can you enlighten me on them as i havent a clue are they a modern us made m1 or made under licence and what is the manufacture date also ive never seen a cammo cover like that before what is the pattern designation any info would be great jay

jaycee wrote:hi gulf im really liking your agentine m1 can you enlighten me on them as i havent a clue are they a modern us made m1 or made under licence and what is the manufacture date also ive never seen a cammo cover like that before what is the pattern designation any info would be great jay

Jay,i have no idea im afraid-its exactly how i bought it quite a few years ago now(before Ebay and the Internet!!!).

Its stored away somewhere and cannot find it at the moment but from memory it is a US shell,maybe even fixed bail,like i said,cannot remember im afraid and again from memory the liner is a US made Nam era crudely reworked/rewebbed by the Argies.

As for the cover,no markings at all from memory and no idea of its cammo designation but similar to US Woodland.

Sorry i cannot be of any more help but when i find the helmet again ill post some more pics without the cover etc.

THanks

Guys re: Argentinian M1's.

This may be of interest to you, regarding these lids, the shells fall into two camps, there will be genuine ex-US M1 shells some times Front seam one's more often later WW2 rear seams, but the general rule of thumb is 60's/70's M1 shells. But importantly Argentina did produce their own shells, identical in every way to the US rear seam shells, these home produced shells will always be rear seam, and are spot welded on the under side of the rim, when I get the time I will dig out examples and show some fine examples of Argentine produced Shells.

The liners were as Rich mentioned US liners, the Argentines bought a load of Firestone liners ( often rejected by the D0D), and retrofitted their own liner cradle, nape straps, a really excellent way to ID a genuine Argy liner is by the green leather sweat band, over the years I have researched indepth on these genre of M1's.

The urban myth is that all shells are US produced , that is not true!!!!

Gary

hi guys i just thought id share my latest acquisition which im quite excited about it ranks up as high as my nam m1 being delivered its a belgium m71 with jigsaw cammo cover and rubber band, the liner i can compare to the french f1 style theres a few hand drawn symbols on the cammo cover here and there

Very cool James , and scarce too Mate

The Belgium M71 (Casque du Parachutiste) is basically the German 1A1LL Paratrooper helmet,originally it would have been fitted with the German leather chinstrap, for some reason in the late 80's the Belgiums adopted the F1 suspension. The Jigsaw pattern cover is fantastic mate, not seen any ever for sale, so you have done very well, my fellow lid addict congrats

many thanks for the info gary i dont know a great deal about these lids so im always ready to learn im chuffed to bits with it and i love the worn out been there look of the lid plus the owners faded personal scribblings just make it more special

jaycee wrote:many thanks for the info gary i dont know a great deal about these lids so im always ready to learn im chuffed to bits with it and i love the worn out been there look of the lid plus the owners faded personal scribblings just make it more special

As ever James, no problem at all, very glad to help

I totally relate, I would be very chuffed too, she's a beauty, and all the personal graffiti makes this lid IMHO, congrats again James

Dont know how i have never noticed these helmets before,done a quick Ebay search and LOADS on there.