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    Italian Navy camo

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    Post by CollectinSteve Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:32 pm

    ripcord wrote:After looking at the slant pocket type uniforms in my collection, I am now more than certain there are not 2 versions of that uniform.  I am confident that the appearance of differences are only due to fading and maybe fabric differences..

    heh. That post of mine was from 4 years ago and I honestly don't know what I was referring too Smile However, I did check my 1990s uniforms just now (the Italian ones are thankfully available) and can confirm that there are some slight production variations.

    1??? (no labels) - slash vent holes under armpits and in crotch. Direct embroidered BSM logo on left chest pocket flap. No metal grommets, velcro backings appear to be added after manufacture. Inside cloth has major color bleed.

    1994 - same as above except metal grommets in jacket pocket corners and no armpit vent holes of any sort.

    1996 - same as above but with direct embroidered BSM logo on left chest pocket flap and cloth has almost no color bleed on the inside. Velcro appears to be factory applied.

    1997 - same as above but without BSM logo. Velcro definitely factory applied.

    The 1997 set came from Sportsmans Guide ages ago and I probably had more than a dozen go through my hands. I've got two sets in hand now. I also had a dozen or so used 1990s sets from which I plucked my 1994 and 1996 sets from. The amount of variation in the camouflage colors, due to production variations and wear, is pretty huge.

    Anyhoo, I definitely agree that all four of my sets are single uniform type (1st Model) that comes in Early and Late variations.

    Such a beautiful pattern Smile

    Steve
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    Post by ripcord Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:46 pm

    Steve,

    Such a beautiful pattern definitely applies.   I was recently doing a bit of research on  MM/SM uniforms, so I figured I'd share..    There is a lot of info on these patterns, but not all of it  helpful.

     At some point  I thought the last type uniforms were of two different hues, if not different colors .   That is not the case.


    I suppose the many variations in patterns of 1st type uniforms led to the standardization of the pattern which  appeared on  second type uniforms around 2000.

    The second type uniform is itself very interesting not only because it introduced the new universal pattern, but because it was a mix of old and new.

    The jacket is basically a first type with a couple of changes . The bottom cargo pockets have been deleted, while the chest pockets are now straight  instead of slanted ( pockets are identical ) .

    Besides the pattern now being on the inside as well, that is basically it.  The weird ( but cool )  back panel with cinching buttons of the first type is retained. I am told the trousers were identical to 1st type.

    It is the last type that uses embroidered green stars at collarpoints   3rd. type have sown on stars that are identical to those of the rest of the Italian armed forces.

    Last photo shows 3rd and 2nd types ( from left ).


                               

                                                                                                                                                            Italian Navy camo - Page 2 Dscn8335

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    Post by ripcord Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:00 pm

    Finally a complete set of 2nd type San Marco/Marina Militare  uniform.

    This was not easy to find as  trousers are rare in comparison to blouses.
    Trousers were usually worn until unserviceable .

    This type is the first to have an universal pattern  as opposed to the 1st type that was made in a few different hues. Also it was the fist type to have camo pattern on the inside as well as on the outside of the garment..




                                                                                                               




                                                                                                                                  Italian Navy camo - Page 2 Dscn9015

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    Post by ripcord Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:17 pm

    Here is a well used '97 dated set.  It  is what many call the Mediterranean pattern and also have seen it referred to as Beach pattern.

    These uniforms faded rather quickly ; many were used until close to unserviceable conditions.

    The blouses pictured are of the same pattern.  The one on the left has been washed once.

    I believe this pattern , or hue of this pattern, is the last and most common of the (1st ) type. It is certainly the most documented. I've seen examples of this pattern/hue with contract dates as late as '99.


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    Post by ripcord Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:35 pm

    Another favorite...




                                                                 
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    Post by Philip Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:53 am

    Very rare and nice!


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    Post by CollectinSteve Thu Aug 17, 2023 2:53 pm

    Yup, that is a beautiful pattern.

    The one I regret not getting, when I had the chance, is the first desert BSM pattern (aka "Somalia"). It was offered to me for something like $250 or $350 which, at the time, was a big price for something that I THOUGHT would not be a one time opportunity. I regret not snapping it up because that was the only chance I had. Not to mention the price has most definitely gone up Wink

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    Post by mylle Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:46 pm

    Great uniform, cool camo. Interesting that they used such dark colored buttons.
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    Post by ripcord Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:08 pm

    Yes, that is strange. There is a Pink version of this uniform ; it has the same color buttons..
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    Post by CollectinSteve Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:35 am

    ripcord wrote:Yes, that is strange. There is a Pink version of this uniform ; it has the same color buttons..

    Not sure if it is a trick of the lighting, but your "orange" set seems to have a more distinct brown colored shape. Here's mine (prior to me owning it) that I'm comparing it to:


    Italian Navy camo - Page 2 Comsub12
    Italian Navy camo - Page 2 Comsub10
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    From what I can tell there are three versions of special desert uniforms, in both cut and colors:

    1. "Orange" - as seen above with square chest pocket flaps, hidden buttons, and chest rank flap. Arm pockets are vertically zipped.
    2. "Pink" - ripstop cloth with pointed chest pockets with single exposed buttons and black zippers on pockets. Also produced in standard BSM colors in non-ripstop cloth.
    3. "?" - ripstop cloth in similar colors as "Pink". but with square chest pockets, top flapped angled arm pockets, and velcro patch for chest rank.

    From previous discussions it seems #3 is commercial. The other two have confirmed pictures of official use.

    Does that sound correct?

    Steve

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    Post by ripcord Fri Aug 18, 2023 2:49 pm

    Looks like it's a light issue. It's the same as yours. In that light, it almost looks like a Pink but we know it is not.

    My photos are usually taken outdoors; prefer natural light.  

    You are correct,  Orange and Pink types are cut identical but for the zipper and Velcro panel colors.
    Black zippered BMS  pattern ( Marina Militare ) does indeed exist. You have one. Not commonly found.

    Desert ripstop types are all over the place. I've seen quite a few different cuts from various contractors.

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    Post by ripcord Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:20 pm

    After handling quite a few 2nd Type uniforms, I am now convinced they were meant to be issued only to San Marco Marines.  

    Have never seen a 2nd type without the San Marco patch on left chest pocket flap.  I have seen other members of Marina Militare wearing a 2nd type , but San Marco patch was covered by other insignia.



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    This  Palombaro ( Deep Sea Diver)  wears a 2nd type with San Marco patch covered by a basic US EOD Patch..




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    Post by ripcord Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:49 pm

    Lone 1st pattern Marina Militare  Blouse . This is my favorite coloration of the 1st MM types. Some call this the" Somalia " pattern..



                                                                                            

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    Post by CollectinSteve Mon Aug 21, 2023 11:49 pm

    I thought the "Somalia" pattern was the desert version. Glad to be corrected about that. My personal favorite is the more golden one. I had a pretty beat up used set that fit me perfectly and I happily wore it until fully worn out. VERY comfortable.

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    Post by ripcord Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:29 am

    CollectinSteve wrote:I thought the "Somalia" pattern was the desert version.  Glad to be corrected about that.  My personal favorite is the more golden one.  I had a pretty beat up used set that fit me perfectly and I happily wore it until fully worn out.  VERY comfortable.

    Steve

    A bit confusing, yes.. The first Italian desert uniform was def called Somalia, and some call the temperate one I posted Somalia and also Salmonata to differentiate from  other 1st type MM temperate ...  
    I know the desert uniform was used there and other sandboxes for certain before newer desert patterns were introduced. ..
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    Post by vulcan 65 Fri Sep 01, 2023 10:08 am

    "Somalia" desert camouflage means only and exclusively this one in the photo, those of the "San Marco battalion" have been used but remain for heir exclusive use.Italian Navy camo - Page 2 S-l16016
    Italian Navy camo - Page 2 S-l16015
    Italian Navy camo - Page 2 S-l16014
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    Post by ripcord Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:36 pm

    ripcord wrote:
    CollectinSteve wrote:I thought the "Somalia" pattern was the desert version.  Glad to be corrected about that.  My personal favorite is the more golden one.  I had a pretty beat up used set that fit me perfectly and I happily wore it until fully worn out.  VERY comfortable.

    Steve

    A bit confusing, yes.. The first Italian desert uniform was def called Somalia, and some call the temperate one I posted Somalia and also Salmonata  to differentiate from  other 1st type MM temperate ...  
    I know the desert uniform was used there and other sandboxes for certain before newer desert patterns were introduced. ..



    Thank you for your input.

    We know this is the first Italian desert camo, and that it was/ is called the " Somalia " uniform. It was also used in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other sandy places.

    Marina Militare 1st temperate pattern uniforms were also used in Somalia operations by GOI /others.

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