Para smock 1950s

    Share

    Gulf91
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Age : 45
    Location : Wales
    Registration date : 2011-05-13
    Number of posts : 3706

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by Gulf91 on Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:44 pm

    calikid wrote:in the movie, seven years in tibet. what was the smock brad pitt was wearing and what was his hat. not the brim one.

    Never seen the film so just did a quick Google search for images and all I can see him wearing is some form of hooded windproof smock-no Para smock?

    CollectinSteve
    ADMIN
    ADMIN

    Location : New England, US
    Registration date : 2009-03-08
    Number of posts : 5571

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by CollectinSteve on Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:27 pm

    All I see in Brad Pitt in (when he's dressed Wink) is a standard non-camouflage anorak.

    Steve

    calikid

    Location : california
    Registration date : 2014-03-04
    Number of posts : 3

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by calikid on Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:34 pm

    is this something i can buy. i really like the look

    Gulf91
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Age : 45
    Location : Wales
    Registration date : 2011-05-13
    Number of posts : 3706

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by Gulf91 on Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:43 am

    Looks very similar but not exactly the same as a WW2 German GEBIRGSJAGER Parka/Anorak.

    Camonut314
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Location : California
    Registration date : 2011-12-12
    Number of posts : 196

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by Camonut314 on Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:11 pm

    I suppose that it is time I started posting photos of my own collection. I have quite a few of the same things people have posted, so I will try to illustrate some "new" things.

    Here is my smock, note the very well repaired lower pocket.

    Pocket:


    I tried to get a matching pair of trousers, but I was searching through a very dark warehouse and I came up with these, still nice though.



    Tag:



    And so far I have not seen any of these posted, do over-smocks count?



    And yes, the label does have "ABL", though hard to tell from this photo


    flashesandovals
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Location : Belgium
    Registration date : 2014-07-02
    Number of posts : 86

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by flashesandovals on Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:35 am

    drmatz wrote:oh yes thats a very nice smock...

    here are a few of my stuff... the conditions are really bad compared to this.

    I also have what i think is the 1st puzzle pattern, quite in a rough shape though












    These are two non-Para smocks


    Last edited by flashesandovals on Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:53 am; edited 1 time in total

    flashesandovals
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Location : Belgium
    Registration date : 2014-07-02
    Number of posts : 86

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by flashesandovals on Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:44 am

    Easy Gee wrote:Very interesting topic guy's ,and fantastic example shown.
    Here's mine I got this one recently on e-bay for £38.00 which I hope is ok for a smock of this era.







    These are not Para-smocks I'M afraid

    flashesandovals
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Location : Belgium
    Registration date : 2014-07-02
    Number of posts : 86

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by flashesandovals on Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:48 am

    Sgt P. wrote:Yeah Raff,
    That heist would go over well with the Belgian Commandoes. Better to check with Major Herman de Prins, as maybe he could help you out. Just tell him that I sent you. He helped me out with a few Belgian smocks, plus a few complete uniforms...we did some horse trading as his team wanted Chris Reeves Green beannie knives. Hope he is well. Bruce

    BTW Herman De Prins is nor a Major, nor a soldier, nor a Para-Commando and he never was.
    He is the biggest known fraud here in Belgium.
    We have checked for his service with The Para-Commando Regiment/Brigade S1 on more than one occasion - no trace of him whatsoever!

    koalorka
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Lieutenant Colonel

    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2010-05-22
    Number of posts : 1629

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by koalorka on Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:12 pm

    What is the difference between para and regular uniforms?

    A few of mine:

    M1956 Jigsaw





    M1952 M&B





    Navy M1952:





    Brushstroke:


    Wolverine
    Sergeant Major
    Sergeant Major

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 475

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by Wolverine on Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:31 pm

    Damn, those are some really nice sets. Did you source them in Canada or elsewhere?

    CollectinSteve
    ADMIN
    ADMIN

    Location : New England, US
    Registration date : 2009-03-08
    Number of posts : 5571

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:20 pm

    The Denison style was made between 1948 and the early 1990s with various changes. The 4 pocket jacket and matching trousers were made almost exclusively in 1956 (Brush and M&B) and Jigsaw 1958. Very small runs were made in other years up to sometime around 1962 or so. The jackets and trousers were worn by regular military during the years of trying to regain there colonial holdings, then it was pretty much paras and UN personnel wearing it until about 1997. Para/CDO wore all these pieces, not just the Denison type.

    Steve

    Stepi
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Location : Finland
    Registration date : 2013-09-09
    Number of posts : 38

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by Stepi on Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:53 am

    "The mysterious Congo Smock" or as I like to call it "The tropical Congo Smock"

    Now I finally took the time and decided to gather some photos of a very special Belgian smock type which I have never ever seen anywhere but in photos from the Congo. Now, I bet you're thinking "he's mad, he's probably just seen a Denison smock and don't know what it is" but no, this is something completely different.

    Let's begin by listing the common styles of Belgian Moon & Balls and Brushstroke smocks from the Congo era and their tell-tale details:

    -Denison, full zip or half zip, flat pockets and bare press studs on their flaps. No horizontal seam/flap thingy on the upper back. Small reinforcement on the upper arms. No elbow reinforcements.
    -The Belgian smock with hidden pocket buttons and a horizontal. Heavy reinforced elbows. Wave-cut seam/flap thingy on the upper back. No reinforcements on the upper arms.
    -The Belgian smock with press studs on pockets. Heavy reinforced elbows. No horizontal seam/flap thingy on the upper back. Large reinforcements on the upper arms.

    But then we have the mystery smock... Basically looks like a mix of a Denison and a standard Belgian smock:
    -Pleated pockets, but smaller than those of the usual Belgian smocks.
    -Hidden buttons on the pockets, like on the standard Belgian smocks.
    -Reinforced elbows, like on the standard Belgian smocks.
    -Reinforced upper arms, larger than on the Denison smocks.
    -Horizontal ventilation slit on the upper back, but completely straight, not wave shaped like on the standard Belgian smocks.
    -Buttons, and probably no zipper at all, on the front.
    -Denison style cuff buttons, higher up on the arm than on the usual Belgian smocks.
    -Overall the cut seems to be a bit better fitting than the usual Belgian smocks, slimmer, and the fabric appears softer also, more like the Denisons.

    I know this is very confusing, I should've done a nice cross reference chart, but the info is there. And here come the photos:

    A few shots from Africa Addio, it's the same guy:


    Buttons on the front, no zipper. Small pockets like on the Denison, but pleated like on the later Belgian designs.


    Straight cut upper back ventilation slit, large upper arm reinforcements.


    Straight cut upper back ventilation slits, large upper arm reinforcements, reinforced elbows, hidden pocket buttons.


    This photo is pretty incredible, no idea where it's from but great quality and color, wow!
    Pleated front pockets with hidden buttons and reinforced upper arms, normal Belgian smocks with hidden buttons don't have those reinforced upper arms.
    Also note the Denison style cuff buttons!


    This is probably the best of these, it clearly shows the differences between this Mystery Smock and the standard Denison style one.



    So, what do you guys think? Ever seen one of these, or have I lost my mind?

    Stepi
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Location : Finland
    Registration date : 2013-09-09
    Number of posts : 38

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by Stepi on Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:11 am

    Now that I think about it the full length button up front without zipper and having the cuff button tabs higher on the sleeve are both common features on the early Jigsaw smocks, totally forgot about that connection in my earlier post.

    So this "Mysteri Smock" is something of a cross between the earlier Brushstroke and Moon & Balls smocks and the Jigsaws, still they have the totally unique featuers: smaller pockets and straight cut ventilation slits, which are not found on any other Belgian smocks or Denisons.

    CollectinSteve
    ADMIN
    ADMIN

    Location : New England, US
    Registration date : 2009-03-08
    Number of posts : 5571

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by CollectinSteve on Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:26 am

    This is very interesting! The color photo of the soldier with the belt shows non-Belgian trousers as there are no leg pockets either on sides or on the front left thigh. The jacket appears to be made from the same cloth and the stitching is prominent. You are correct that Brushstroke 6 pocket jackets with buttons do not have the upper arm reinforcements as far as I know. Only the snap and Jigsaw versions have it. My thinking is they appear to be contract pieces, probably made by a Belgian company in the mid 1960s.

    The others look to be standard Belgian items. There are Dennison smocks with upper arm reinforcements. I have one from 1954 and one from 1973 (or is it 1975?) in my quick look. The one with the vent along the back is probably a 6 pocket jacket and therefore not a hybrid smock.

    Steve

    Stepi
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Location : Finland
    Registration date : 2013-09-09
    Number of posts : 38

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by Stepi on Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:29 am

    CollectinSteve wrote:This is very interesting!  The color photo of the soldier with the belt shows non-Belgian trousers as there are no leg pockets either on sides or on the front left thigh.
    Actually there is a leg pocket, you can just make out the outline where it begins as the camo changes pattern and you can also see the silhouette of the flap.

    CollectinSteve wrote:The jacket appears to be made from the same cloth and the stitching is prominent.  You are correct that Brushstroke 6 pocket jackets with buttons do not have the upper arm reinforcements as far as I know.  Only the snap and Jigsaw versions have it.  My thinking is they appear to be contract pieces, probably made by a Belgian company in the mid 1960s.
    Something like this could make sense, as the cut is pretty much the same as on the later Jigsaw smocks. Could these perhaps have been made for the Congolese as they don't seem to have ever appeared outside of this one conflict?

    CollectinSteve wrote:The others look to be standard Belgian items.  There are Dennison smocks with upper arm reinforcements.  I have one from 1954 and one from 1973 (or is it 1975?) in my quick look.
    But unlike any Belgian Denisons I've ever seen these have hidden pocket buttons, I know there are Belgian Denisons with bellowed pockets like these, but they all still have visible brass press studs and most often also only half length zippers. The details combined still don't make sense to me.

    CollectinSteve wrote:The one with the vent along the back is probably a 6 pocket jacket and therefore not a hybrid smock.
    But have you ever seen a Belgian Brushstroke or Moon & Balls 6 pocket smock with a straight cut upper back vent? I haven't, only these in these photos from the Congo. All vents I've seen have always been cut in round arches.

    The first two photos, the screenshots from Africa Addio, are the key here as they show the same jacket from front and back, same thing goes for the third photo of the men in the jeep: straight cut back vents, large upper arm reinforcements and hidden pocket buttons and all in brushstroke = not standard.

    Many of the photos in this thread have disappeared over time but I can't remember ever seeing a Belgian Denison with:
    -Full length front zipper or buttons.
    -Hidden pocket buttons, they all have visible brass press studs.
    -Such large upper arm reinforcements, only much smaller ones.

    koalorka
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Lieutenant Colonel

    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2010-05-22
    Number of posts : 1629

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by koalorka on Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:02 pm

    I believe this model has already been identified by Eric Larson IIRC. It's a tropical model and the colours and cut are distinct.

    Stepi
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Location : Finland
    Registration date : 2013-09-09
    Number of posts : 38

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by Stepi on Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:56 am

    koalorka wrote:I believe this model has already been identified by Eric Larson IIRC. It's a tropical model and the colours and cut are distinct.

    This is good to hear, it seems my thought were in the right direction, could you dig up any more info, reference photos etc. on this matter? I could not find anything on Google.

    Would this also mean that the Jigsaw smocks with only buttons instead of zippers + press studs is also a tropical variation?

    koalorka
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Lieutenant Colonel

    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2010-05-22
    Number of posts : 1629

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by koalorka on Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:18 pm

    Stepi wrote:
    koalorka wrote:I believe this model has already been identified by Eric Larson IIRC. It's a tropical model and the colours and cut are distinct.

    This is good to hear, it seems my thought were in the right direction, could you dig up any more info, reference photos etc. on this matter? I could not find anything on Google.

    Would this also mean that the Jigsaw smocks with only buttons instead of zippers + press studs is also a tropical variation?

    You can probably find the discussion archived on the other forum, but I haven't been able to log in for a few weeks otherwise I'd happily repost the photos.

    Your observations were pretty sharp but I don't know about this alleged tropical jigsaw, never seen one.  Wink

    Stepi
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Location : Finland
    Registration date : 2013-09-09
    Number of posts : 38

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by Stepi on Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:53 am

    koalorka wrote:I don't know about this alleged tropical jigsaw, never seen one.  Wink

    I mean the pretty common Jigsaw smock that uses only buttons on the front instead of zipper + press studs ... or am I missing something here? Very Happy

    CollectinSteve
    ADMIN
    ADMIN

    Location : New England, US
    Registration date : 2009-03-08
    Number of posts : 5571

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by CollectinSteve on Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:49 am

    Light weight Brush set makes sense since the normal weight set would be horrible in the Congo! But the question is if the set was made for Congolese forces or Belgian or both?

    Steve

    Stepi
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Location : Finland
    Registration date : 2013-09-09
    Number of posts : 38

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by Stepi on Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:24 am

    I posted something of Belgian origin in the African section, a 5 Commando beret an Jigsaw smock: http://iacmc.forumotion.com/t10441-congo-5-commando-mercenary-beret-and-jigsaw-smock#76136



    (more photos in the African section behind the above link)

    thunderchild
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Age : 44
    Location : uk
    Registration date : 2013-04-21
    Number of posts : 344

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by thunderchild on Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:36 pm

    just to share my 56 pattern jigsaw camo jacket dated 1958

    Wolverine
    Sergeant Major
    Sergeant Major

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 475

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by Wolverine on Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:55 pm

    Is the helmet cover improvised from a hood, or was it purpose-made?

    thunderchild
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Age : 44
    Location : uk
    Registration date : 2013-04-21
    Number of posts : 344

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by thunderchild on Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:20 pm

    Hello andrew ,yes it was improvised from a hood ,thanks james

    Wolverine
    Sergeant Major
    Sergeant Major

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 475

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by Wolverine on Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:23 pm

    That is pretty cool. I have one purpose made jigsaw helmet cover for the M51 helmet, but I am not sure how widely they were used, versus the improvised covers. I have yet to find a picture of a Belgian soldier with the purpose made cover (it has a seam running down the centre, like the various US GI M1 helmet covers).

    Sponsored content

    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by Sponsored content Today at 5:50 am


      Current date/time is Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:50 am