1972 pattern webbing, what parts does it encompass?

A 72 pattern wbbing just arrived, and I'm curious what more parts exist that were part of this series.
So far there's the webbing set and the SUIT sight pouch I'm sure about, but I've heard that the S6 gasmask haversack and the Arctic
and Para/SAS Bergen packs are modified forms of stuff from the 72 pattern complex. Any info on that?

And I have some questions about the actual webbing.

In the 3rd and 4th photos you can see the horizontal flat pouch at the bottom of the buttpack. Is this like the bandoleer for an ammobelt
or something like that?
It's a pretty nice feature, with both a string closure, and a string to pull it out of the hole above it when it's stowed there.

The the buckles below the small single-mag pouches at the front, what are those for, are they to attach the long ends of the lower side
adjustment straps, as a form of pouch compression to avoid bouncing what's inside? The lower straps are quite a bit longer than the upper
straps, and do fit around the magpouch and into the buckle, as seen in the last photo.

Am I right in assuming the sight pouch should be attached to the side adjustment straps? It has an upper small loop, and when fitted on the
side straps the height of the beltloops is about the same as the straps.

Hi I think the pouch below the rear of the webbing could be a poncho roll.

I've thought about that option, since there isn't a seperate roll, but even if I'd roll a poncho extremely tight, it wouldn't fit in there at all.

It might actually be for the pickaxe head, but this is just my speculation.

michelwijnand wrote:I've heard that the S6 gasmask haversack and the Arctic
and Para/SAS Bergen packs are modified forms of stuff from the 72 pattern complex. Any info on that?

The S6 Respirator Haversack, SAS/PARA Bergen, GS Rucksack and Combat Pack SAS are '72 Patt.

The original trials pack is near identical to the GS Rucksack. Those trials breakable black plastic fasteners are sewn on the side pouches. From memory, the lid and front pouch (on the front) all TIE to close (as per the SAS/PARA Bergen and the Combat Pack, SAS). There are bizarre button hole type slots woven into the pocket for the top of the rucksack frame. Fittings are all plastic. The shovel strap has the same plastic cam fitting that's on the top of the Rear Pouch of the CEFO.

The correct frame is shallower than the ones that followed: I used one on my issue bergen (briefly) and the horizontal bars make contact with the spine. Had to change it immediately. An easy identifier is that the standard frame uses round stock wire to form the shoulder strap loops: the trials frames use sheet steel with holes punched out. In between the shoulder strap loops is the riveted on metal ordnance "label". These will also be dated 1972.

The Arctic Rucksack is surely '76 Patt. It's made from the same nylon as the "1958 Pattern Mk2", aka '76 "pattern". As was the SUIT Sight Pouch that was issued later on.

michelwijnand wrote:In the 3rd and 4th photos you can see the horizontal flat pouch at the bottom of the buttpack. Is this like the bandoleer for an ammobelt
or something like that?

You've speculated correct (in a follow-up post), it's 100% for the '58 Lightweight Pick Head. I've tested this and it's a perfect fit. The poncho fits under the lid of the rear pouch: from memory, there are two loops on the inside lid for it. NBC kit goes into the Utility Straps that connect to the rear Yoke straps. You don't have these and the only examples I've seen are on my set which I bought as a complete set of CEFO when these sets were easily available on the army surplus market (in the 1980s).

michelwijnand wrote:The the buckles below the small single-mag pouches at the front, what are those for, are they to attach the long ends of the lower side adjustment straps, as a form of pouch compression to avoid bouncing what's inside? The lower straps are quite a bit longer than the upper
straps, and do fit around the magpouch and into the buckle, as seen in the last photo.

I've wondered about this, too. I imagined that it was for an item of kit not rolled out at the time or as an expansion option for proposed kit. The two grommets were likely for additional kit that would use '44 hanger hook fittings to attach - either backward compatibility or for optional items, eg compass cases, etc.

Realistically, it'd have been used to pull tight the set to reduce bounce (as Paras did with the '58 set).

However, I think you may well be onto something! The small pouch is actually for SLR mags, the large pouch for waterbottle, mess tins, grenades, etc. Odd, I know! Perhaps they intended to issue SLR magazine bandoliers...

To turn the CEFO into "Skeleton Order" on '58 webbing, the Kidney Pouches and Cape Carrier would be removed. Unable to do similar on the '72 set, the method you've illustrated might well be the designers' intention for flattening the large pouches. The Rear Pouch has compression straps for flattening that.

michelwijnand wrote:Am I right in assuming the sight pouch should be attached to the side adjustment straps? It has an upper small loop, and when fitted on the
side straps the height of the beltloops is about the same as the straps.

It seems to be so, that's how it would have been worn on the '58 set.

OUCH!!! I'm missing this item from my collection. I remember seeing them back in the day but wasn't collecting then and, also, I mistook them as US ALICE kit (which it was often marketed as being).

Combat and Survival Mag did a review of this set up when the magazine was in its early years. Pretty sure they said the large pouch could fit 30rd SLR mags, as the front pouches only fit 1 each. There is plenty of images and a Wikipedia review of it.

Thanks, tha's a lot of nice info.

Do you have a photo of the utility straps? Then I'd know what to keep an eye out for.
Even if they're extremely rare as you say, who knows what might pop up in a strange place.

I've seen a photo of a holster that would have been part of either 72 or 76 pattern webbing judging by the material, and it had a
beltloop and also belthooks, maybe that could have been for adding to the rings on the front pouches if iy's part of the 72 stuff at least.
Though it seems like a weird place to hang a holster.

Maybe Silverman's still has a Suit sight pouch left over for you, they had several types a while ago when I bought this set.

michelwijnand wrote:
Do you have a photo of the utility straps?

I'm sorry about the delay! For some time, I've been unable to log in...



My collection is in storage far from reach for some time. But before I packed it away, I took some pics of some of it. First, the utility straps:



The straps are identical, there's no left or right side.

And the standard issue frame versus the trials spine bashing one:

Well, I'm not in a hurry, so thanks for getting back on this!
I've never even seen those straps at all. I had seen the different upper rings on the frame before, but not that the trial frames were really close to the back like that, no wonder they changed that in the eventual version!

michelwijnand wrote:Well, I'm not in a hurry, so thanks for getting back on this!
I've never even seen those straps at all. I had seen the different upper rings on the frame before, but not that the trial frames were really close to the back like that, no wonder they changed that in the eventual version!

I've not seen my set for a good few years but I vaguely recall that there are adjustable loops in the lid of the rear pouch to hold the rolled up poncho.

These Utility Straps are the only ones I've ever seen and they came on the assembled set I bought. I've been told that they were to hold the NBC suit - but when you try this, it doesn't work very well at all. So I'm presuming that it was a very short-lived item during the user trials.

Back in the day (early 1980s), it was extremely difficult getting hold of SAS/Para bergens at a reasonable price. There was a shop that sold them - at near a months pay (for me). Usually, you'd have to buy them damaged in component form from shops like Du Bora's, Aldershot.

The trials frame was on a complete rucksack I got cheaply when I was a recruit at Depot PARA. During my first run with it, I realised why it was so cheap and why the seller wanted rid of it! The horizontal bars of the frame make contact with your back unless you lean backwards. The Back Support Straps have a steel buckle that often loosens then rubs against your back. It was real punishment to use.