material composition of windproof / arctic 86 -95 smocks

Hi,

Does anyone know the material comp. of the windproof and arctic DPM smocks made between 86 -95? Post 95* likely they were 50/50 poly cotton blend. I'm assured by a seller on ebay for a particular item (new old stock, serial 8415-99-132-3956, issued 25 Apr 1991) is 100% cotton, however I'm not so sure. I have read about the development of the smocks on a site online. Seperately I note that polyester / nylon is fairly old technology and was relativey widespread by the 70s in non-military clothing.

Any hints?




I dont intend to buy this ebay item in question ( www.ebay.com/itm/324494907542 ) as its slighty too big, even with oversize considered.
However if I can find a similar one in that style and, and 100% cotton that would be neat for a little side project.

*I tend to suspect that incorporatation of polyester coincided with addition slot /canadian style buttons, which replaced 'normal' buttons about this time (90s).

The one you linked to is the final version - and IMO the best - of the gaberdine windproofs. It is 100% cotton, I have one just like this with the same plastic label which I wear for hill walking. "Wash as cotton" on the label means it is just that. The cotton mine is made of feels a bit lighter weight than some of the earlier smocks but I think that's just the gauge of the thread used. There's certainly no polyester in it. This and the earlier windproofs feel totally different from the later dpm and mtp polycotton types.

I think you are on the money with your suggestion that polycotton came in with the slotted buttons style but a bit later than your suggested date. Cotton windproofs with slotted buttons do exist but all the ones I've seen are private purchase.

Edited to add: The ebay smock is not 1980s as claimed in the listing but is ca. 2000.

Great info, thanks for the confirmation Edward. It does look hardy. If I can find a 170/96 thats ideal. I'd use for treks also. Initially I sought for an oversized and relatively hardwearing all-cotton layer (god forbid PVC), in order to wear over a vintage cotton, 80/20 down jacket (made by nautica, a NY sailing gear manuf.) which I got at auction. The color of the nautica is an eyesore however (funnily enough the same crimson red as the forum); so a top layer resolves this and also relieves 'big red' (lol) of any eventual wear/tear (despite 'big reds' vintage-like leather elbow patches!).

The main feature I appreciate on the smocks in question is the roomy neck area which becomes ideal for layering at the collar. The only non-military manufacturers that feature a V neck so far are Penfield, Parka London and Fat Face. IIRC some US army field jackets have it. There may be others. Penfields' "gibson" jackets seldomly come in cotton; theyre mostly either 60/40 or 40/60 poly cotton. Its down to preference.

Parka London OTOH re-produce the aforementioned smocks in a variety of colours/patterns for non-official/ casual dress use in glorious old school canvas, see below...


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233611233716




The man behind Parka London is Alfred Lever (won contract to produce garments for the RAF in 50s).

BTW this website https://www.nsndepot.com/NSN/8415-99-132-3956 suggests DPM in OP is 1991. It could be in error, or that it was indeed issued but throughout the 90s and phased out whilst newer issues were phased in.


A side question. IIRC, concessus was among servicemen that older designs (68-86) were less prone to ripping. Curious about any details.. thoughts?
Perhaps due to that 'some' pre 86 variants were double lined and/or perhaps used a heavier twill.

The NSN is the date the pattern was approved. The grade of cotton and the dpm pattern seem to have varied slightly over time but evidently not enough to warrant a new NSN, so that a smock of this type (oddly referred to here as a poncho) could have been made any time between whenever this NSN was introduced and whenever the polycotton type superseded it, or even earlier if the pattern predated the adoption of NSNs by the British Army. This NSN certainly existed before 1991 as I have an earlier windproof with the same NSN, so presumably either it was renewed in 1991 for some reason or 1991 is the date this list was compiled.

The contract number, not the NSN, is what indicates the approximate date of manufacture. See see my thread on another forum here: https://hmvf.co.uk/topic/31684-using-labels-and-markings-to-date-postwar-british-clothing-and-equipment/

thats makes more sense, i'll have a look at the invaluable resource you provided.
i'll update the thread in due course

thanks again

shorterxp wrote:Hi,

Does anyone know the material comp. of the windproof and arctic DPM smocks made between 86 -95? Post 95* likely they were 50/50 poly cotton blend. I'm assured by a seller on ebay for a particular item (new old stock, serial 8415-99-132-3956, issued 25 Apr 1991) is 100% cotton, however I'm not so sure. I have read about the development of the smocks on a site online. Seperately I note that polyester / nylon is fairly old technology and was relativey widespread by the 70s in non-military clothing.

Any hints?

Is there a difference in polyesters alltogether?
I think that many outfits (commercial) use poly cotton in divers percentage, but these are mostly horrible outfits to wear, the polyester in those tissues is a disaster!
makes the outfit stiff to wear, on seams it wears trough way too fast! due to it beeing so hard.
well known is Propper with it's battle rip 65/35 poly cotton, I had a few, and did not like to wear them.

Therefore I prefer to wear issued outfit, that is often NyCo, nylon/cotton based which I find wears much more soft and less hard wearing.

I must say that tags in UK outfits often makes it a riddle which compostion they used to make the tissue.

Other countries outfits have (in that way) better tags.

From Manufacturing Specification for Smock, Combat, Woodland Disruptively Patterned, Windproof DC/MS/4431 Issue3 18 June 2009:-
Fabric: Cloth, gabardine, cotton NSN 8305-99-137-2306, 180 g/sq. m, water repellent, 1000mm wide, disruptively patterned.

are you sure?
I can't remember that I've seen official smocks that young, purely cotton?

a poly cotton kind of mixture yes.

Technical Specification for
CLOTH, GABERDINE, COTTON, TWILL,
Camouflage Pattern


3. PRODUCT DESCRIPTION

TABLE 4 - PRODUCT COMPONENTS

FIBRES
• 100% cotton
• Quality equal to the cloth Standard Pattern
YARNS
• To be evenly spun
• 2 fold yarns
• Quality equal to the cloth Standard Pattern

CLOTH
• 2x2 •S Twillweave
• Selvedges are to be firm, straight and not of a thickness that may lead to unacceptable build up
       during laying up for garment cuffing.
• Handle drape and appearance are to closely match the Standard Pattern

finally got this gab smock and condition turned out to be better than expected. it was listed as "used" but its more or less new.

16th signals regiment patches are since removed and now has ww2 desert rats slide on the chest tab.



intend to use for outdoor pursuits etc

and yes im a short arse