IACMC MILITARIA FORUM

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

3 posters

    portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard

    avatar
    isenhand


    Location : sweden
    Registration date : 2023-04-04
    Number of posts : 7

    portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard Empty portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard

    Post by isenhand Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:23 am

    Has anyone ever come across a Portuguese M/964 dolman jacket in French lizard pattern? I have managed to acquire one but I can't find any info on it online.

    portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard Dsc_9810
    CollectinSteve
    CollectinSteve
    ADMIN
    ADMIN


    Location : New England, US
    Registration date : 2009-03-08
    Number of posts : 6938

    portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard Empty Re: portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard

    Post by CollectinSteve Wed Apr 05, 2023 1:31 pm

    Welcome to the forum!

    What a crazy coincidence you should ask. Just last week I posted pictures of my jacket that I've had for maybe 15 years. I have always suspected it is commercial. Here's the link to the discussion:

    https://iacmc.forumotion.com/t13491-need-some-help-iding-portuguese-items

    Steve

    isenhand likes this post

    avatar
    isenhand


    Location : sweden
    Registration date : 2023-04-04
    Number of posts : 7

    portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard Empty Re: portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard

    Post by isenhand Thu Apr 06, 2023 3:28 am

    Thanks for the reply. Yeap, I'm thinking commercial as well. The camo pattern does look pretty much spot on for French lizard to me. Does make me wonder if it is made of left over French material. The jacket looks good quality and is in a good state but the label is washed out. One suggestion I got is a commercial Portuguese hunting jacket from the 1980s.
    avatar
    isenhand


    Location : sweden
    Registration date : 2023-04-04
    Number of posts : 7

    portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard Empty Re: portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard

    Post by isenhand Thu Apr 06, 2023 3:32 am

    Just been looking at your jacket's camo and mine. Looks like your jacket has the same French camo. You can see that better in the picture of the back of my jacket.

    portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard Dsc_9811
    CollectinSteve
    CollectinSteve
    ADMIN
    ADMIN


    Location : New England, US
    Registration date : 2009-03-08
    Number of posts : 6938

    portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard Empty Re: portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard

    Post by CollectinSteve Thu Apr 06, 2023 12:07 pm

    My thinking is a genuine military contractor got a hold of some spare cloth and cranked out some commercial jackets using their existing infrastructure. Not necessarily "hunting" as there's no features designed for that market. I had a Portuguese made horizontal lizard hunting jacket years ago that had things like the "poacher's pouch" along the small of the back and other things I've long since forgotten about.

    Gilles would be the right guy to narrow down the possibilites, however I have pictures of a tagged M-64 (F1 style) jacket that uses the exact same printing as our jackets. So that, at least, is a perfect match.
    Best theory I can think of is the manufacturer got a hold of legit surplus French cloth sometime in the late 1990s or earlier.

    Steve
    avatar
    isenhand


    Location : sweden
    Registration date : 2023-04-04
    Number of posts : 7

    portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard Empty Re: portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard

    Post by isenhand Thu Apr 06, 2023 12:15 pm

    Thanks. That sounds a good possibility.
    vonstuck
    vonstuck
    Colonel
    Colonel


    Location : FRANCE
    Registration date : 2010-03-30
    Number of posts : 3410

    portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard Empty Re: portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard

    Post by vonstuck Thu Apr 06, 2023 4:04 pm

    Hello
    The camouflage pattern is a variant of the F2 pattern camouflage, so the camouflage is not a French military issue textile
    This pattern was used by varous African country as good exemple with my Chad jacket
    http://vonstuckcamouflage.free.fr/chad.php

    Gilles
    CollectinSteve
    CollectinSteve
    ADMIN
    ADMIN


    Location : New England, US
    Registration date : 2009-03-08
    Number of posts : 6938

    portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard Empty Re: portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard

    Post by CollectinSteve Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:13 pm

    Thanks Gilles!

    This is the one I compared our mystery jackets to. Is it also commercial or African military? Currently I have these phones marked "official", so I appreciate clarification.

    portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard S-l16016
    portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard S-l16018
    portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard S-l16017

    Steve
    avatar
    isenhand


    Location : sweden
    Registration date : 2023-04-04
    Number of posts : 7

    portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard Empty Re: portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard

    Post by isenhand Fri Apr 07, 2023 3:20 am

    vonstuck wrote:Hello

    This pattern was used by varous African country as good exemple with my Chad jacket


    Interesting. But would any African country have made a copy of a Portuguese M/964 dolman? Angola perhaps?
    vonstuck
    vonstuck
    Colonel
    Colonel


    Location : FRANCE
    Registration date : 2010-03-30
    Number of posts : 3410

    portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard Empty Re: portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard

    Post by vonstuck Sat Apr 08, 2023 4:02 am

    CollectinSteve wrote:Thanks Gilles!

    This is the one I compared our mystery jackets to.  Is it also commercial or African military?  Currently I have these phones marked "official", so I appreciate clarification.


    portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard S-l16017

    Steve

    the label:
    tenue de travail pour homme veste de travail M-64 :it is in good french langage
    and the textile material type in english
    So not sure it is build in France
    vonstuck
    vonstuck
    Colonel
    Colonel


    Location : FRANCE
    Registration date : 2010-03-30
    Number of posts : 3410

    portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard Empty Re: portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard

    Post by vonstuck Sat Apr 08, 2023 4:06 am

    isenhand wrote:
    vonstuck wrote:Hello

    This pattern was used by varous African country as good exemple with my Chad jacket


    Interesting. But would any African country have made a copy of a Portuguese M/964 dolman? Angola perhaps?

    portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard 1983_310
    in this picture of Chad soldier, 1983, you have in left two soldier with garment in Portugal lizard pattern in French cut
    For the soldier in the middle the lizard pattern is that I describ in: Lizard pattern used by some Francophone African country 3:http://vonstuckcamouflage.free.fr/various-camouflages.php

    TennoHeikaNate likes this post

    avatar
    isenhand


    Location : sweden
    Registration date : 2023-04-04
    Number of posts : 7

    portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard Empty Re: portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard

    Post by isenhand Sat Apr 08, 2023 4:13 am

    Thanks. So, unlikely they wore Portuguese style jackets. Does suggest it's commercial but interesting they used the Chad lizard camo.
    CollectinSteve
    CollectinSteve
    ADMIN
    ADMIN


    Location : New England, US
    Registration date : 2009-03-08
    Number of posts : 6938

    portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard Empty Re: portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard

    Post by CollectinSteve Sat Apr 08, 2023 8:05 pm

    Thanks for the information Gilles.

    Yes, the English on the label indicates this was not made in France, but who would make a 100% commercial item with a combination of good French and also English? The two extra buttons on each shoulder, either for lanyards or brassards, is certainly not something I expect to see on a 100% commercial item. It seems to me this jacket is a contract piece for some French speaking African nation. Maybe from South Korea.

    Many years ago I received a brand new set of trousers that might match the cloth of these jackets. It was sold through Sportsmans Guide as "Portuguese" for only a very short period of time. It was *not* Portuguese because the camo pattern was horizontal camouflage and in French M58 cut. I purchased it around 2000 and I don't know what I did with it. Sold it probably.

    Steve

    Sponsored content


    portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard Empty Re: portuguese dolman jacket in French lizard

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun Jun 16, 2024 9:37 pm