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    Original Leibermuster?


    Location : Los Angeles
    Registration date : 2014-02-01
    Number of posts : 2

    Original Leibermuster? Empty Original Leibermuster?

    Post by JLovell Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:37 am

    I acquired this in 1971 or '72 and it's out of 30 years in storage along with a lot of my camouflage collection.

    I'm not trying to sell anything or seeking valuations, but thought some members might find the piece interesting and have opinions/insights as to whether it's actually original Leibermuster. I've read all I can find on this subject, including on the forums, am familiar with some of Borsarello and Peterson's books though I don't have any presently. I corresponded with Dr. Borsarello in the 1980s.

    I owned a copy of Report L-26 which was given to me by the guy who designed the 1946 pattern for the US Army (the Four Color Pattern which evolved into the US Woodland pattern). All the swatches were present and yes the Leibermuster textile was not HBT but that which I believe is called smooth weave- the weave was like blue jeans.

    I have a Czech smock and a couple of the BW/ABL jackets (also acquired in the early 1970s) and I am aware of the Swiss. I'm wondering who else might have made this in HBT besides the originals.

    The color may be a little off as the lenses I use seem to have trouble with some printed colors- the red isn't that orange. And yes those are pine tree needles on it- the tree is huge.

    This piece is approximately 85 X 180cm (33 X 72 inches).

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    Location : New England, US
    Registration date : 2009-03-08
    Number of posts : 6939

    Original Leibermuster? Empty Re: Original Leibermuster?

    Post by CollectinSteve Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:05 pm

    Wow. Given when you got this, I'd bet quite a big heap of money that it's original WW2 production. Here's what I can contribute...

    The common cloth does appear to be a smooth twill, not HBT. However, at this point in the war the Germans, out of necessity, were not sticklers for details as much as they used to be. If a factory had a bunch of unprinted HBT cloth left over from a 44 Dot (Peas) run, they would certainly have used what they had. No question about it. Since there are so few surviving examples, and piss poor photographic documentation, I don't think Leibermuster on HBT can be ruled out.

    I have one picture of the inside of a jacket that shows wartime markings and the cloth is HBT. I do not know the source of the picture (I did not note it), however it's in a folder of "originals" so at the time I got the picture I thought it to be genuine.

    As for other country's usages, I think we can pretty safely rules these out:

    1. 1955 Belgian/BRD printed on thin canvas material only. Did not use the same pattern anyway, so it's easy to distinguish between the two.

    2. Swiss early 1960s printed on thin canvas, then around 1962 (can't remember exactly) switched to thick cotton ribbed twill. Closer in pattern to the wartime type, but again it's not the same and is easy to distinguish.

    3. Czech pattern doesn't look anything like this at all, so safe there too.

    No other nation made any production material in Leibermuster that I'm aware of. While it is possible that someone fooled around with German wartime rollers and cloth, I think that is less likely than this being legitimate wartime production.

    Contrats on having some of the rarest and most desirable cloth around town Very Happy

    When you get a chance, I'd love to see detailed pics of your Czech smock. There's not many examples that have survived. Also, if I didn't have a Belgian/BRD Leibermuster set I'd be extremely jealous of you having "a couple" of jackets. Ah, who am I kidding... I'm still jealous Wink Mine is missing the crotch flap and had a printing error on the back panel.


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