British Jacket lightweight-Gulf War.

Here's another one guy's ,I picked this one up which also came with a Mk1 CBA also named to the same squaddie Orzel.

Gulf91 wrote:Kicking myself Gary,must have noticed what it was,put it in my watch list then deleted it not remembering why it was in there to make way for something else.

Gutted, yeah I have done the exact same over the years;) 

As it was just a bog std shirt and not sparse etc I probably just forgot why it was in my list to begin with-DOOOOH.

Not a massive deal as not actively looking for one but would have been nice I guess to get it cheap!!!

Here's a good example of a Para used jacket. 

" />

Very nice Gary is that a recent buy?

I suspect the ordinary desert jackets were issued after 1990/1 due to the style of Velcro patching. I say this because period photos and proven issued in 90/1 were 99% badge less.

The jackets are 1990 period made however  

At the start of the 2003 invasion of Iraq etc... I recall soldiers wearing sparse items on film from the news channels. I guess same old story , we dug deep into the shelved storage until the tea bag 95's were plentiful.

Gulf91 wrote:Very nice Gary is that a recent buy?

To be honest Gulf, my memory is terrible lately, I think I might have bought this one at the beginning of the year???

bravo_2_zero wrote:I suspect the ordinary desert jackets were issued after 1990/1 due to the style of Velcro patching. I say this because period photos and proven issued in 90/1 were 99% badge less.

The jackets are 1990 period made however  

At the start of the 2003 invasion of Iraq etc... I recall soldiers wearing sparse items on film from the news channels. I guess same old story , we dug deep into the shelved storage until the tea bag 95's were plentiful.

Very good point b20 , I forgot to mention in my description that the para jacket was post Op Granby, I like this one as it is a good example of military recycling at it's best! 

I have just also realised that the Orzell jacket has the wrong pictures attached...I make some stupid **** up's sometimes apologies in advance:oops:  

First issue 4 part 2 colour , first issue with all the bells and whistles deleted in later runs.



First issue on the right with reinforced stitch



Double stitching on the inside leg



Massive cargo pockets

Great info and would never have noticed even though now its so obvious,to me in my collection they would be just generic Desert Trs!!

Nice one b20 , never even realised there were these distinct differences, I will check out my trews   

Easy Gee wrote:Any one else one one of the Spanish made GW era jackets, it's the only one I've ever seen, and gladly I own it?

Just got a pair of the matching trousers.

These have to be the very first combat desert tropical run due to them being a 1:1 replica of the jungle tropicals.





Button and zipper fly



Regular not non loss flapped pockets



Jungle green blousing cords.



Rear pocket



Rear of the print where you can see definite colour deference between the brown shapes and if you also note no 2 part pink colour too.

Very impressed with the latest desert trousers b20, great to see these as I was not aware of this type prior to now, I agree these must be an early if not the first run of these type,very cool mate,one for my own collection  

I don't want to speak too soon but I may have acquired another rare sample of desert DPM. The trousers seem to be made of tropical 80's pollycotton blend as used for armour vest covers.

Great thread, and lots of excellent information. It amazes me how little really nice GW1 kit can still be bought for. I'm getting a few bits before everyone catches on and the prices shoot up.

This 4 Mech Bde jacket and trousers came together. The trousers are early - zip and button fly and rear pocket. I was delighted to find this field-used set, with just the right amount of wear, for less than £30 - including postage!

This is presumably 1990 manufacture with the early Comptons label, but used when, and who by? It's been made into a 4-pocket smock by adding a strip of ddpm and the pockets from a pair of trousers. A Velcro'd pocket has also been added to each sleeve. There are two names inside. I forgot to photograph a 1.5 x 2 inch glued patch of at the top of the left sleeve, but you can just see it in the first picture.

Any thoughts? (Cost was next to nothing so there's not a lot riding on it.)

Edward53 wrote:This is presumably 1990 manufacture with the early Comptons label, but used when, and who by? It's been made into a 4-pocket smock by adding a strip of ddpm and the pockets from a pair of trousers. A Velcro'd pocket has also been added to each sleeve. There are two names inside. I forgot to photograph a 1.5 x 2 inch glued patch of at the top of the left sleeve, but you can just see it in the first picture.

Any thoughts? (Cost was next to nothing so there's not a lot riding on it.)

Jacket main was produced after the war because it uses the dedicated desert print screens , the extra bits are made from 1990/1 issue because it fades to pink as seen.

I would maybe put this jacket mid/late 90's because the army didn't realy issue any smocks in desert only shirts. We had the very short run 94pat very thick impractical desert jackets, ripstop s95 , ripstop Windproof ( went funny when washed ) and then the Windproof that flood the surplus market today.

Hi B20
 
I’m fairly new to GW1 and you’re not, so I’m treading carefully here! Yes, the jacket is in the “new” print, but does that definitely make it mid or late 90s? First, there had been various changes of pattern by then, and I don't know why Comptons would revert to the old pattern. Second, maker names disappeared from clothing around the early to mid 90s or so I believe, yet here’s a name and old style label. Third, the contract number 0030 is the lowest I've seen for Comptons. However I have a jacket by Comptons 0030, Amendment 2 in the “old” print, and jackets by Comptons 0070 in both prints. Presumably Amendment 2 and 0070 came after 0030, yet here is an 0030 in the “new” print. And I also have jackets by Supercraft 0031 in both prints.

So as I see it, there are three pointers to GW1 against one pointer to later, and that one is only valid if you accept that the “new” print only came in much later.

Here's my theory: both “old” and “new” prints ran concurrently soon after production began, possibly because there weren’t enough “new” print screens to go round all the subcontractors. Neither print is more conspicuous than the other so the urgency was not to get all the screens changed over but to get the garments out in the first place, sorting out other changes later. As it turned out, there was plenty of time to get a huge stockpile ready for what turned out to be a short ground war, and whilst I'm not claiming all early pattern clothing was made in 1990 or 91, there seems a pretty good chance it was. Then once GW1 was over, there was plenty of kit on hand and time to think about new patterns.

I’m not making a hard and fast statement here, just a suggestion which I'm happy to walk away from if there is evidence otherwise!   

Cheers, E.

Old,new print,all looks the same to me.

Hope we are not going along the horrible route of DPM here where there are arguments about dots etc.

I would be interested to know as well as I always thought that the cut/style of garment was used to date it?

I can now definitively say that all three British ddpm prints were in use prior to the outbreak of hostilities in Gulf War One. There doesn't seem any doubt that the "first" print, and the "sparse" print were in use, but there has been some about the second print - here and on Camopedia, which states that it didn't come in until 1994. However, since Camopedia also states that "sparse" first appeared in late 1991, it's not much of an authority.

Here's a photo from page 19 of "Desert War", a pictorial history by Mike Moore published in March 1991. The caption is "Daily Life". Note the soldier nearest to the camera.



Detail of his shirt:



Compare this with the pattern on a "second print" shirt:



It's identical. Next, the same area on a "first print" shirt:



The difference is the left half of the shape like a bird with a hooked beak at upper left.

It's clear that this soldier is wearing a "second print" shirt. The photo is in a group taken before the ground war began. At least one other picture in this group shows a "second print" in use.

The point of all this is, if you have a "second print" shirt, it is not necessarily post-Desert Storm.

[quote="bravo_2_zero"][quote="Edward53"]This is presumably 1990 manufacture with the early Comptons label, but used when, and who by? It's been made into a 4-pocket smock by adding a strip of ddpm and the pockets from a pair of trousers. A Velcro'd pocket has also been added to each sleeve. There are two names inside. I forgot to photograph a 1.5 x 2 inch glued patch of at the top of the left sleeve, but you can just see it in the first picture.

Any thoughts? (Cost was next to nothing so there's not a lot riding on it.)

Hi Mate, I like this one a lot any custom made issued Jackets always appeal to me. Bearing in mind the pockets are sewn onto the elbow region I would sway towards it being used by a Sniper?

I look forward to seeing more DDPM from your collection.

Cheers Gary, I like it for the same reason as you do, and I agree that use by a sniper would make sense if the elbows were padded out. I like both unissued and used items, they appeal in different ways. This jacket was £2 and it's probably not worth any more in purely financial terms, but I was really pleased to find it.

I will take pics of some more ddpm and other items, but bear with me a bit longer, as there are still a couple of pieces I want but don't have examples of. Then, once I'm ready, I mean to start a Gulf War One kit identification thread based on patterns and labelling. I don't claim to be an expert, but I'm faily confident I have picked up enough knowledge to provide a basic guide, and unless someone beats me to it, that will be the only resource on the Internet (or anywhere else that I know of) explaining how to recognise and date this kit.