Czech commercial desert pattern

I am still favoring the theory that these were made on spec and not adopted. Why else make a gasmask bag? In the early post-Communist days there must have been a lot of confusion about what the rules were. Maybe someone paid off an official and thought they had a contract, only to find out they didn't. All kinds of fun possibilities

By far this is my most favorite non-military issue pattern.

Steve

Desert boots with stamps:

Very interesting! This is a different design from the type that is readily available. Yours do not have the velcro fake leather straps at the top. The leather is also tan instead of red brown, though I've seen one other pair (with straps on top, I think) with tan leather.

What's interesting is the 1992 date. At least one other pair, of the common type, was shown to have 1996 stamps on them. They were posted on the previous page, but the pictures were deleted (I have copies on my harddrive).

Very strange.

Steve

I thought that those with straps are those which are usually not marked. This is pair I had few months ago. They didn´t have any army marking.




Btw: this was the most interesting piece in this camouflage I have seen. 3m x 1,5m sheet of uncut fabric:

Before today I've only seen one set of boots marked and it is the type with the straps. I've had maybe 10 pairs myself and none of them were marked. I know other collectors looked through their items and didn't find acceptance stamps either. Just one exception. So you are correct that normally they do not have stamps.

The 1996 stamped pair was made by Svit (I think that is the name).

Ah, did you get the cloth on eBay a few months ago? I was watching an auction for a large piece and forgot about it until just now.

Steve

I am really mad at myself because I forgot if the strap boots I had was marked by manufacturer markings or just size. I also didn´t take a picture of inside. And forgot to bookmark surplus store I got them from. Sometimes I feel really incompetent.


No, I didn´t buy that fabric. I was selling it I was planning to make a custom chicom chest rig from that piece of cloth. But it turned out to be too soft so I sold it.



It is a real shame that we probably won´t be able to solve the mystery around this camo completely. I was able to find out that uniforms were made by AGRECO company. According to the Czech company register it was founded in 1990. Last update of company info in this register was made in early 2000s. I wasn´t able to find any phone number or e-mail to ask them directly. I found some post address to its CEO (or other director, I am not familiar with business terminology) but I didn´t get myself to write them a traditional letter



I remember reading in many different forums that there is at least one photo of Czech Army soldier wearing boots in this camo. I googled and googled, in English, Czech and Slovak and still no luck with finding this photo. Does anyone have it and would be willing to share?

Thibir wrote:No, I didn´t buy that fabric. I was selling it I was planning to make a custom chicom chest rig from that piece of cloth. But it turned out to be too soft so I sold it.

Heh! Small world

I remember reading in many different forums that there is at least one photo of Czech Army soldier wearing boots in this camo. I googled and googled, in English, Czech and Slovak and still no luck with finding this photo. Does anyone have it and would be willing to share?

If I've ever seen it, I don't have a copy of it. I do have a small picture of a couple dozen soldiers lined up in the desert, but they appear to be wearing black boots in some cases and olive green boots in other cases. The details are nearly impossible to make out, but it does appear they might be the same design as the common type of these boots (i.e. with the straps at the top).

Steve

Quite contrary that olive green canvas boots are without straps and quite similar to those experimental posted above.

You are talking about either of these two photos (first one is on Czech ministry of Defense page all other are from forum.valka.cz):





Boots detail:



Uniform vz. 85 variant with these boots. This variant was introduced in 1991. It didn´t appear at Iraq. It was supposedly used in Yugoslavia.

VERY nice hard to find badging.  I know these badges were used on the earliest production vz95 desert uniform, but were removed and rebadged.  I'm not sure if it ever saw service with these badges or only with the replacement (large flag with "Czech Republic" arch above)

very nice uniform there Tibor! and the pictures are brilliant, if you have more pictures like those, please let me know. I'd be more than happy to have them in my pictures library.

I´m sorry if it seemed like I own this uniform :-) I just wish.


Photos are from briliant forum.valka.cz from topic about vz. 85 uniform. There are more very nice photos from Czechoslovak forces in Kuwait.

http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/37548#141554

I have found these two photos in one CZ/SK reenactment facebook group. I have to admit that I haven´t ever imagined that this pattern might look so cool when put together properly :-)


It is an impression of fantasy unit with gear consisting from:

experimental/commercial pattern items
vz. 85 para belt
vz. 85 para twinmagazine pouch
vz. 75 combat knife
vz. 58V - folding stock

Looks not bad at all....Cool, thanks for posting.

Yeah, I think it's a shame this pattern never saw more experimentation. I think it had a lot of promise.

I've seen spare meters of fabric once or twice for sale. I assume the backpack was made using a real pack and putting spare cloth on it. I've made a few items like that and it works really well. But I am a little puzzled by the small bag on the left hip. That cloth looks different.

Steve

I don´t know much about the backpack. According to the man on the photo he got large pack from a guy who used it for hiking. I am not sure if anybody would spend some time to put camo cloth on it.

The bread back is 100% copy of communist civilian one. I would say it is "genuine"

Thibir wrote:I don´t know much about the backpack. According to the man on the photo he got large pack from a guy who used it for hiking. I am not sure if anybody would spend some time to put camo cloth on it.

The bread back is 100% copy of communist civilian one. I would say it is "genuine"

If these are both factory made then they were most probably "one offs" because after 15+ years of these being on the market I've never seen anybody even discuss these two items.

As for modifying existing items with camouflage cloth... it's not that difficult to do if you have sewing skills and motivation.  Sometimes all the motivation one needs is to have something fun at the end.  Many years ago I modified an old pair of Bundeswehr cotton and leather trigger finger mittens.  I disassembled them very carefully, used the cotton pieces as patterns for Flecktarn, and reassembled them complete with the original wrist adjustments.  Nobody could tell that I made them by hand unless they really knew what to look for.  And I've only improved my sewing skills since then   That was about 20 years ago and I still have them.

A few years later the Bundeswehr started making pretty much the same thing for real.  Maybe I should have sued them for copyright infringement?

My point here is if I had some cloth I could make very convincing kit out of it without too much trouble as long as I had the original item to use as a pattern.

Something to consider.  Why would this company manufacture a civilian Communist item instead of making their own design?  Most of their other items are not exact copies of even Communist military kit, so to me that raises some suspicions.

Steve

Some valid points.

Until I would be able to get some more information I agree that both large and small packs are home made :-)

Yeah, these sorts of things are tricky because sometimes they do turn out to be one-off samples, sometimes just nuts like me having some fun with a sewing machine. Or as I did one time, had a factory in China make some items for me out of genuine Mexican Marines cloth

I have pictures of a beautiful BGS Sumpftarn trousers which were converted into riding breaches. Super, super high quality job. So much so that from pictures it looks factory made. And of course the stamp is there in the waistband because it did start out as a standard issue trousers. So the question is if a "rich" BGS officer had them made for him or if a WW2 reenactor did (they bastardized all kinds of early BGS stuff), or it was just someone having fun. I'm sure I'll never know.

Steve

Here's what I've got:



I'm hoping to find more. I love this pattern.

By the way, is there really a woodland variation of this camo? From Camopedia: "There is also a colour version with more green etc. - probably developed for use in an European environment." I've never seen a single picture of that, so I'm almost inclined to say it doesn't exist and whoever wrote that was mistaken. But if it does, I'd be very interested to see one.

Hi Guys! this is my first post so forgive me if i mess up, But i have recently stumbled across several items of this pattern at a surplus store in Gettysburg PA, I did not think much of the pattern, like it was a reproduction of some company but the guy said it was legitimate so i bought it and took it home. He had a size 56 boonie, the mesh cap, 3 blouses (2 size large, and 1 XL), size large pants, and 2 duffel bags. i will post pictures as soon as i find out how to do so haha.

Welcome Armymanevin! You should put a quick post in the introductions section. Always helpful to tell people what your primary interests are.

The best we can figure is this stuff was mostly produced on speculation by a private company. As such, nearly none of it is "official" kit. The sizes of everything were very limited, and somewhat strange. The uniforms tend to be Large, the boots *HUGE*, and the hats *TINY*.

Berezka, I have some of the other stuff to spare if you are interested. I think I have a dufflebag and gasmask bag to spare. I know I have some boots left. Send me a PM if interested.

Steve

Armymanevin, you found all that in one place? Damn. I'm jelly. I've had to search the darkest corners of the earth for bits and pieces to get what I have.

CollectinSteve, I sent you a PM.

10 or more years ago a major surplus outlet in the US (Sportsmans Guide) had everything except for the side cap and boonie. You could order as many as desired and I desired a lot of them I purchased 6 complete sets of everything despite already having 2 complete sets. I only have a few pieces remaining. Mostly because I've forgotten about them!

Steve

Ok so now that I can start posting photos, I started with an East German rain camo pouch I had never seen before. Now I will do the Czech desert camo haha. So first let me explain that I work at a military surplus store for my full time job, and I scoop up most European military surplus as soon as it walks through the door, unless I have the item already or it is extremely common. So on my off days which is like 1-2 days a week I go surplus store hopping on those off days. This was one of those off days and I just happened to find a couple cool items to my collection. This one was probably by far the best find I have come across in a while. This was the first time I have seen this pattern so I was going to do some research and come back for it later, but they were not asking much for it and I knew it had some potential to it so I decided not to risk it. I took the gear home and looked it over and the only markings I found is the boots have a tag in them and the hats have a small tag along the sewing. everything else was unmarked. I have the one set on display at the surplus store I work out with the boonie cap and everything else is sitting on a shelf in my room. Sorry ahead of time for poor pictures I am not a photographer haha. But I got like I said the 2 duffle bags, 3 blouses (2 large and 1 XL), 1 mesh style trucker cap, 1 boonie cap, and 1 size large pants.



This is the Boonie and Size large set in the Surplus store



These are the boots and the mesh style trucker cap



Tag inside the boot



Duffel Bag

If anyone has any items in this pattern that would want to part with them, just pm me.

I also forgot I had the boots too. If there was a company out there that made this boots aftermarket I would totally wear them! they are like a hybrid between a converse sneaker and a desert boot and they are quite comfortable (I put them on when I got them, I do not wear them regularly haha). they are like a size U.S. 10 - 11. I wear like a U.S. 9.5 - 10 and they are big on me. Also the boonie I have is a size 56.